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Post by marjar on Oct 6, 2009 15:42:44 GMT
Just a question...how do the volunteer mountain rescue, coastguard, motorcycle organ carriers etc get on with all this? Has anyone got any up to date and accurate information?
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Post by ambobod on Oct 8, 2009 20:53:31 GMT
Information is pretty sparse on the subject, but it appears ALL blue light drivers are to be subject to the new driver testing and subsequent retesting as far as I can make out. More will no doubt come from the Blue Light Users conference when it next happens. It will also be interesting to see if BASICs Docs maintain their use of lights. Many of those mentioned by you in your post are not able to claim the exemptions claimed by the Police Ambo Fire etc following local protocols too.
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Post by marjar on Oct 9, 2009 7:31:49 GMT
That is really interesting, thanks. I think that this emphasises an important point, in that it is not exemptions per se that CFR's seek, it is more a case of public awareness of our activity. All I seek is more awareness of what I am doing, at the moment it is easier to pick out a taxi, driving school, pizza delivery van etc than me responding to a 999 call for help. Surely there is a way forward?
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Post by colinm on Oct 16, 2009 15:43:34 GMT
Hi I have not long been a CFR and have read the posts about blue lights etc and am amazed that some people really still do want some sort of special lights for their cars.
We just have to accept that blue lights=qualified professional full time emergency services and that any lights/badges/signs that CFRs have are incidental to doing what we have been asked to do. We dont need them, just drive normally at the correct speed limit, observe the higway code and when you arrive at the call safely without causing other drivers alarm just get on with what we volunterred to do. If you have not been taught to drive as an emergency driver it is clearly unsafe to do so and any lights, blue, green, red or pink will not speed our passage. I feel better now! ;D
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Post by centralresponder on Oct 20, 2009 17:47:02 GMT
Colin, Welcome I hope you will become regular What scheme do you respond with? My only response to your above post would be wait until you have your first arrest and when the crew does eventually arrive they PLE him. Its not a nice feeling especially when you know you could have made a different if it wasn't for the delay in getting to the pt. Some of the arrests we go to have no med hx therefore a shock box and good quailty CPR could have potentially done the trick pre crew arrival.. Unfortunately we don't all respond from communities, I am part of a directly managed city centre scheme and short of doing a night shift I struggle to get to my jobs within ORCON, yeah but who cares about ORCON we're volunteers?? Well I don't, I do however care about getting to my pt within 8 minutes as the BLS/ALS I can provide before the 8 minute window is gone is far greater than outwith it.
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Post by the welsh one on Oct 25, 2009 22:44:54 GMT
i have been looking into this for the group i am with. not only does the car have to be reg as an emergancy car people under 21 are not accepted by insurince companys plus the driver trainning. if blue lights are needed this may have to be the trust you are working for to diced.
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Post by medatrain999 on Nov 1, 2009 10:44:40 GMT
Ambobod... take a look on the Trust's intranet... there's a new driving policy on there which few people are aware of.
"9.4.4 EMAS staff responding in their own private vehicles on behalf of the Trust are prohibited from using any emergency audible or visual warning devices including signage with the intention to claim any exemptions to the Road Traffic Act
9.4.5 CFR’s responding in privately owned vehicles on behalf of the Trust are prohibited from using any emergency audible or visual warning devices including signage with the intention to claim any exemptions to the Road Traffic Act. The only exception to this prohibition is if they are responding on behalf of a government agency or organisation such as the Fire and Rescue Service, RAF, MoD or the East Midlands Airport.
9.4.6 East Midlands Immediate Care Scheme (EMICS) and British Association for Immediate Care (BASIC) doctors responding on behalf of the Trust are permitted to use emergency audible or visual warning devices including signage to claim exemptions to the Road Traffic Act only if any such fitted devices have been approved by the Trust through the General Manager- Fleet Services and they have complied with the training requirements outlined in Paragraph 7.2.2"
Interesting how 9.4.5 states that the RAF/MoD ARE allowed to use these types of audible/warning devices. A group for this particular Trust clearly advertises their services as FPOS Basic and Intermediate only. This is ok but their own staff can't do it?!?!?!?!?! Hmm.....
BASICS Docs ARE still allowed to retain their use of blue's and two's which a few are grumbling about as they have spent much time and money on supplying their own equipment and providing an extra resource response to find they are no longer allowed to do it!! What makes the docs different?? There's very few skills which can be performed pre-hospitally that they can 'bring to the party' and drugs, well... the guys and gals out there have managed so far!!
My source in the Trust has even said that they're now removing the blue light authority from training officers and some operational managers!
But back to the CFR blue light issue... I maintain my earlier post; Community First Responders are just that - First Responders that are IN THE COMMUNITY. They should not require blue's and two's.
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Post by medatrain999 on Nov 1, 2009 10:46:43 GMT
Just a question...how do the volunteer mountain rescue, coastguard, motorcycle organ carriers etc get on with all this? Has anyone got any up to date and accurate information? Specifically organ/blood vehicles etc, they have NO EXEMPTION for speed. The lights / sirens are there purely for awareness. This has come from a member of the blood donor service.
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Post by marjar again on Nov 2, 2009 12:11:24 GMT
Just a question...how do the volunteer mountain rescue, coastguard, motorcycle organ carriers etc get on with all this? Has anyone got any up to date and accurate information? Specifically organ/blood vehicles etc, they have NO EXEMPTION for speed. The lights / sirens are there purely for awareness. This has come from a member of the blood donor service. Quote...The lights / sirens are there purely for awareness. and that is exactly the point, I do not necessarily want blue lights or sirens and certainly not exemptions from traffic laws but I do want to be able to let the public see what I am doing and maybe, just maybe, I can get across the Market hill on a Saturday morning in less than 8 minutes!
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Post by guest on Mar 21, 2010 22:05:10 GMT
My twopence worth.
I don't feel that CFRs should plug gaps, the current trend of more training and a higher level for lay responders is not to be encouraged IMO, but let's take a different tack.
Reduce the price of AEDs. Position them in more places. Raise awareness, arrange training and encourage confidence.
This way, the objective of bringing life saving to victims earlier is met without uniforms or blue lights.
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Post by cfrsmarknben on Jun 28, 2010 17:15:53 GMT
both of us are cfr in our local area one of us now works for the local ambulance trust and is ihcd driver trained we both feel that blues and two have no real advantage when acting as cfrs. to be honest the safety implications are tremendous and why increase the hazards of normal day to day good driving it is better to get to a job safely than not at all. a good example is when an ambulance on blues on was being followed by an rrv not on blue on a 15 mile trip the ambulance only arrived 90 seconds before the rrv so there is no real advantage especially over a 5 mile coverage zone.
like we said before its better to get there slow and safe than not at all
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Post by rector on Jun 29, 2010 22:13:47 GMT
OK, lets look at this plain & simple....
We are dealing with peoples lives and if the ambulance service are busy, then we are the only thing that stands between that person meeting the biggest homeboy of them all that we know as GOD.
Now, if a animal doctor can have a blue light and special constables can drive police cars on blue lights, then why can't we? I mean its like sending a TA soldier to war without a gun because he isn't full time.....
We dont need to cross white lines, but just use traffic lights as giveways......... After all, we are doing this for free and the last thing we want is to arrive at a call to find out someone died because we were stuck in traffic.........
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Post by ambobod on Jul 1, 2010 16:15:08 GMT
Believe me guys, our negative responses aren't because we don't sympathise or agree, but we have been aound long enough to have heard this so often, just google any blue light question you can think of.
One point being that in order to maintain the perceived skill levels required to drive on blues, you would have to drive a large percentage of your yearly mileage on blues. (I drive somewhere in the average region of four hundred miles a week in an ambo or FRV/RRV) plus my responder hours / mileage.
Secondary, the cost to schemes or individuals of insuring their vehicles being prohibitive. Latest quote in, based on my professional status for my own car is £480, not as a responder doing no blue light driving, but based on a D2 pro driver.
Thirdly, the cost of driver training to D2 standard and ongoing assessments (see my previous post in the thread ref updating, periodic re-testing and accident reassessment).
Fourthly, as a driver on B&T's, you are likely to be considered as a contributory factor in any accident occurring as a result of your 'presence' in the vicinity to it! This makes you liable to blame in the accident and liability to compensation claim, resulting in cascading insurance costs, and negative publicity in the press.
Medatrain999 and I are at the forefront of all of these issues in our everyday dealings with our trust, and we both still currently feel the pain in being stuck in traffic with the rest of you! But, we are still supposed to be a first line of response in our LOCAL area.
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Post by muzz on Jul 7, 2010 12:05:46 GMT
I am a CFR in a remote area, there is one ambulance on duty to cover our area, with a backup vehicle and crew, dependant upon time of day..... the ambulance station is a 20+ min blue light run, recently one of my colleagues, driving a trust vehicle, through narrow streets had to get out of the van and ask the minibus driver to kindly move over whilst waiting for his passengers, so he could get past to attend a 999 call with central chest pains, the minibus driver basically told him to "get stuffed and where's your blue lights?" Whilst I agree with the majority of the reasons not to have bluyes on a trust CFR vehicle, there has got to be some common sense due to other circumstances. I myself have had to ask a lorry driver to allow me past as he was blocking the road, he did it without question, but a blue/siren would have saved some time. Incidentally there are NO traffic lights in my area, and very few (2) roundabouts.
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Post by ambobod on Jul 7, 2010 18:12:23 GMT
Medatrain999, check the SOP folder for an update on STaff Responder Policy mate.
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