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Post by medatrain999 on Apr 24, 2009 22:12:00 GMT
The problem with this is that the law states green flashing lights will be used by medical practitioners only (ie, doctors) so I'm afraid this one won't be given the time of day.
Going back to my original post on this subject, CFRs are there in the community and shouldn't need any form of flashing light. HOWEVER, we ALL know that majority of our calls are well outside of the 5 or so miles radius of where we are.
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jd589
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Post by jd589 on Apr 25, 2009 19:28:02 GMT
I don't think there ever will be a general answer to this thorny question on Blue Lights. It will probably end with individual Trusts making their own rules and looking at local situations. Time is a factor and "maintaining progress in traffic" whether city or rural will become more and more difficult, especially as Central Government seems to be bent on a path of reducing speed limits accross the UK. I can understand local village groups not seeing the necessity but some responders have greater areas of operation ( mine is a 6 mile radius) and it is frustrating to be stuck behind slow vehicles when your responding to a cardiac arrest.
Out of interest one of our localities are great fund raisers and have vehicles with B's & T's which they use.
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Post by mintymurray on Apr 29, 2009 9:57:03 GMT
Big no to blue lights, the idea for CFR is within 8 minutes at normal driving speeds, what is better is if you can walk/run to the house, it is meant to be community, any where you have to drive at speed to is too far away.
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Post by INTFR999 on Apr 29, 2009 16:23:47 GMT
Hi all,
One issue we have is a set of traffic lights at the crossroad in our village, which do not have sensors. You sometimes can be sat for 2 - 3 mins if you hit them wrong.
I think for 'marked' CFR vehicles, with Magnetic signs etc, need consideration to progress if safe to do so, especially at night.
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Post by gosportcfr on Apr 30, 2009 7:17:08 GMT
Traffic lights are a big problem where I live too. We have a lot for such a small town, made worse by what seems a constant amount of temporary lights and road works. It would be nice to get through these quicker, but blue lights are not the answer. Not sure what is.
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Post by pulsey on May 2, 2009 9:32:01 GMT
Hi all, One issue we have is a set of traffic lights at the crossroad in our village, which do not have sensors. You sometimes can be sat for 2 - 3 mins if you hit them wrong. I think for 'marked' CFR vehicles, with Magnetic signs etc, need consideration to progress if safe to do so, especially at night. That's life. We're supernumerary. A crew and/or RRV and/or Service Responder and/or BASICS Dr and/or Air ambulance are on their way as well. Chances are it's not going to make a difference between life and death (Certainly where I am, only about 5% of calls are Arrests, half of those a crew or RRV is on scene already and most of them it's too late or nothing can be done anyway). You turning up 3 mins later is still better than you not turning up at all (no CFR scheme in place or no-one currently on-call or you hit something crossing those lights on red) Accept it. You knew that you wouldn't have lights when you joined. Why do people make it such a big issue now? |
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Post by INTFR999 on May 2, 2009 14:02:06 GMT
Hi all, One issue we have is a set of traffic lights at the crossroad in our village, which do not have sensors. You sometimes can be sat for 2 - 3 mins if you hit them wrong. I think for 'marked' CFR vehicles, with Magnetic signs etc, need consideration to progress if safe to do so, especially at night. That's life. We're supernumerary. A crew and/or RRV and/or Service Responder and/or BASICS Dr and/or Air ambulance are on their way as well. Chances are it's not going to make a difference between life and death (Certainly where I am, only about 5% of calls are Arrests, half of those a crew or RRV is on scene already and most of them it's too late or nothing can be done anyway). You turning up 3 mins later is still better than you not turning up at all (no CFR scheme in place or no-one currently on-call or you hit something crossing those lights on red) Accept it. You knew that you wouldn't have lights when you joined. Why do people make it such a big issue now? I Don't think like you say blue lights are the answer.... Visability is key and having a 'signed' vehicle does help. Raising the profile of CRF's in our local area has played a key part in public understand what our cars look like when 'signed'. Most people in the 5 village I now cover are aware of our own vehicles and the signs we have. We have just purchased Mirror Image 'Emergency' Signs for our car bonnets which allow drivers to see you are behind them clearer. My personal experience over the last few months is the public are aware of us and are pulling over / allowing progression at junctions when it's clear your on a Job. The only advantage I can see for any flashing light of any colour is a becon that the crews backing you up can follow... As I have done when backing up a lone paramedic once before. |
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Post by pulsey on May 2, 2009 21:42:50 GMT
The only advantage I can see for any flashing light of any colour is a becon that the crews backing you up can follow... As I have done when backing up a lone paramedic once before. Indeed. And nowadays, every car comes fitted with one as standard. Little red triangle on your dash that puts your hazards on. ;D And it's Free. OK, so you have to spend a few grand on the car in the first place, but technically it's free.  |
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Post by annandamide on May 3, 2009 22:22:57 GMT
Absolutely! We all did realise that we wouldn't have blue lights when we signed up. But having blue lights is no guarentee that you'll be seen anyway. These days people disappear into their own little worlds, safe in the knowledge that they are untouchable in their own personal, indistrucable box. Lol.
Outside scene hazard lights do the job perfectly. :-)
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blef
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Post by blef on May 6, 2009 16:25:51 GMT
There seems to be a wide difference of opinions with the 'Blues and twos'
I can legal use them but choose not to when responding. Mainly because the trust says 'NO' but also because I don't want patients to think "good, the doctor/paramedic etc, is here now" I'm a highly qualified wilderness medic, but some of the stuff I can do in a jungle or mountain base camp, would see me arrested if I did it on the streets of Berkshire. Although I'm the first to admit that if someone was going to die because I was a responder and nothing else, then I'm afraid the medic skills would come out of the bag, trust approval or not.
B's & T's need a lot of training, need insurance that I’m certain is not on my private policy, need expensive fitting on my 'family car', etc. who is going to pay for all that?
There are also the 'look at me, I got a uniform and a flashing light brigade' now these scare me. Are they doing this because they want to make a difference and possibly save a life, or because they think a flashing beacon makes them 'hard' or invincible. If your that keen on a light join the police, or ambulance service. I wear a t-shirt that says 'Responder' only so that the ambulance crews can identify who I am. I don't know all of them after all.
Maybe Mikey above has hit the nail on the head, green lights? But then I'm not a doctor or a vet either. Who knows, is there a solution that could possibly mean we can get there quicker, without the need for lights? Maybe we should make our respond areas smaller, doing away with the need for speed? I'm sure this is going to be a subject for debate for a while yet, but I'm happy as I am at the moment.
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Post by yulbrynner on May 13, 2009 18:44:39 GMT
I can legal use them but choose not to when responding. Mainly because the trust says 'NO' but also because I don't want patients to think "good, the doctor/paramedic etc, is here now" I'm a highly qualified wilderness medic. Well said blef. Now if someone of your qualifacation can see no need for them surely those that do feel the need could follow suit. There are also the 'look at me, I got a uniform and a flashing light brigade' now these scare me As I've said elsewhere, they are in the minority but they are out there and they scare the hell out of me too. They area an accident waiting to happen and could undo a lot of good work that has been done with the CRF schemes. |
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Post by st1100 on May 13, 2009 23:35:23 GMT
The green light idea sounds great, some TV advertising, a letter to the local chief constable and some ads in the local rags about what we are doing and how people can help us, i'e giving way etc. Now who do we have to convince......oh I forgot the people that write the road lighting regs, discussion ended.
St1100
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Post by marjar on May 14, 2009 11:30:02 GMT
You are correct to a point but it is far from discussion ended. Laws and Regulations are changed almost daily in the light (forgive the pun) of new needs and requirements. We now live in a Country which is subject to European legislation so that is also a consideration. there could be a European Directive which would require Her Majesty's Government to change local member state laws or there could be a European Regulation (not a Directive) which would bring in a new law at once with no adjustment allowed by HMG. I guess the real bottom line is never say never...  |
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Post by st1100 on May 16, 2009 17:58:40 GMT
Lets say the european goverment state that CFRs europe-wide must use blues and twos to attend calls and the UK goverment implement that rule....
1) Who insures the vehicle for blue light use
2) The country will be full of CFRs with no blue light training because at present you do NOT have to have had blue light training to drive with them you simply have to be using the vehicle for ambulance purposes.
3) There are many CFRs that have come from previous emergency services work and would be quite at home driving in these conditions but there are also alot less capable CFRs who would more than likely give up being a CFR than use B&Ts.
ST1100
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Post by marjar on May 17, 2009 11:58:37 GMT
Quite correct ST, but remember if it is a EU Regulation (not directive) then HMG have no say on whether it is implemented or not! and it wouldn't be the first time that the EU have done something before considering the full implications!
Thanks for the good debate.
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