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Post by prontocab on May 12, 2009 20:27:16 GMT
I stated that i could see a reasoned arguement, that does not mean i've softened. If you need uniforms to carry out your responder duties, perhaps we should issue them to the hospital car drivers too? Maybe the people who work in Air Ambulance charity shops should have them too? They all do important work and represent the service too, don't they?
Funny thing is, they have never asked, mentioned or uttered any such desire. Just CFR's.
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Post by yulbrynner on May 13, 2009 16:52:22 GMT
Hi Prontocab, To be fair the general consensus seems to be that it's a minority that want these things, not the majority. In my view they would be the beginning of the end for the CFR movement because ultimately the mere fact that blues & twos were part of our repertoire would attract the wrong sort of person. We need recruits who want to do something positive for our community, not a bunch of thrill seeking wannabees who sooner or later will kill someone and every CFR in the land will be tarred with the same brush. The day CFR's are authorised to drive under blues will be the day I leave! Bottom line from me. . . . It's not everyone that `craves`blues and all the other malarkey, in fact it's probably a small minority. Waterfairy maybe we were seperated at birth cos you have aired my exact thoughts. Any of us that have been involved in this for a while (I have been a CFR for 2 years and in St John for 14) probably know at least 1 person involved in such a scheme that is just a bit too "Gung Ho". They are a very small percentage and very much in the minority but they are out there. Dangling the chance of uniform and particularly blue lights in front of them is like dangling a petrol can and box of matches in front of a pyromaniac. the end result will be the same, CARNAGE!! probably with at least 1 life taken. These are the sort of people that given such "toys" will make us all have to put our heads between our legs and kiss our A##s goodbye. I repeat They are a very small percentage and very much in the minority but they are out there, unfortunatly this type of voluntary job does draw them. With regard to clothing, yes there is an argument for infection control but as Prontocab says, why not a disposable apron, its a damn sight cheaper and saves on the washing. Our local community donates to our group, its their money I wonder where they would rather see it spent, something that looks pretty or something, cheap practical and effective. As far a Specials and retained firefighters, yes they have uniforms but when a SC is on duty he/she wears it ALL THE TIME so they can be identified. We don't need to do this and sometimes, as I've said elswhere, it wouldn't be practical. Retained fire Fighters have a specialised uniform for their own protection and again we don't need this. What is wrong with a clearly marked up Hi Vis and an ID badge. These along with the correct behaviour should be all we need.
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wannabefindergeneral
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Post by wannabefindergeneral on May 13, 2009 19:39:38 GMT
I think you are wannabes for even suggesting you should have blue lights.
Seriously get a life and if you want to be a paramedic then join the ambulance service and train as one.
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Post by Admin on May 14, 2009 8:25:14 GMT
I think you are wannabes for even suggesting you should have blue lights. Seriously get a life and if you want to be a paramedic then join the ambulance service and train as one. What a well thought out argument.... This is a forum, which means that people can come and discuss their views. Fair enough, blue lights might not be the answer but at least it is refreshing to know that there are volunteers with such dedication and devotion towards the well being of their community that they freely give up their own time to do so. There is no need to alientate people that have suggested having blue lights. I don't think that there would be many good debates if everybody had the same opinion. Please do not bother posting on here again unless you have something more constructive and mature to say Thanks
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Post by gsfr1uk on Jul 7, 2009 11:37:32 GMT
If you have ever done an emergency services driving course and passed, then you have achieved much. Most notably will be a different attitude and maturity towards driving in general and the value and also difficulties that blue light use creates.
In all the emergency services there are good and bad drivers, despite the selection, training and experiences, some get through when they shouldn't.
And it would be the same for volunteers. Some would be just fine and others would not. Just because you don a paramedics uniform and work for the trust, does not mean automatically that you are a good driver on blues and twos..........
It is much easier to monitor and assess a full time employee of an ambulance trust, and if things go wrong for the individual there is the opportunity for back up and support, but don't dismiss the capability of a volunteer who has done a full emergency services driving course and passed as a potential wannabee.
I do agree that some folk would find the enticing potential of blues and twos something they would aspire too using the responder community as an excuse. These are likely to be the kind of folk that we should be very wary of but some of these will get through to the emergency services so its not just the volunteer community that has issues here. There was a remark earlier about one special constable ruining it for a hundred others, is that not prejudice and non diverse, an old attitude. There are just as many regular officers bringing down the reputation of the force!!!
Thus for me, if your trained, the trust supports it and importantly you feel it is beneficial because of your call types and locales, then why not? A good B and 2's driver will be able to make progress and arrive safely, and faster. He/she would also make better progress in any event but could be hindered by the other road users and conditions, 10 seconds earlier arrival could make a difference. So why not 'give the people with the skills the chance to decide if they want to make use of them. I am police trained and would be happy to make use of the privilege, but I am not on a one man crusade to introduce the capability. Interestingly my coordinator wants me to have the ability as a trained and experienced ECP because he feels it will make a positive difference. I will leave him to negotiate with the trust and see what happens.
Re uniform, well, firstly what is the purpose. Apart from the neatness of all looking the same its identity. I do agree that our public are badly educated but to them a person in an indentifiable uniform walking up the drive is going to provide some comfort of help arriving. Being identifiable means you identify, clearly it should say first responder and be proud of the fact and explain what your doing/what capabilities you have. In most emergency cases if their not grateful its because they are not listening and your there with kit and capability, more than what the people around at the incident have I would wager.
So to summarise, I am not against B and 2's if people are rightly and properly qualified, it may help and good people will know how best when or if to use.
Uniformity is good, identity is more important, uniform eases the process.
Be proud of what you have and be clear, your not a Paramedic, technician, but you are a responder trained and willing and here helping out making a difference! I do it on the basis that I might make a difference and one day, who knows maybe a CFR will make a difference to me
Gaz
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Post by marjar on Jul 7, 2009 11:43:58 GMT
Well written, sensible and reasoned argument. Unfortunately it is likely to be misunderstood and treated with disdain by those who really should start to listen!
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Post by gsfr1uk on Jul 8, 2009 16:42:04 GMT
Thanks Marjar, The famous author Aldus Huxley once said "Ignorance of the facts do not make them cease to exist"!!! Of course there are prejudices around, but I look at it this way. If you have a task to do for the greater good, then you will look at all resources available to you and do the very best using what you have. Without prejudice. My neighbour died in my arms because he could not get the attention that may have potentially helped to save his life as quickly as he needed it, his last words "I am going" and I was helpless to do anything. A first responder arriving quickly in this situation 3 minutes before the ambulance would have been able to intervene with O2 therapy and may have alerted the control to get the air ambulance, which may again have helped to potentially save life. So when people on here say, fitting blues and 2's wont get you there quicker, well, sorry, in most circumstances, they will. Else the government would save millions a year not having them fitted to our emergency services fleet! But I do know of a highly trained police officer who killed a nurse on his way to a job.......... Of course, there are risks. As soon as you have a formal legislated body AND a volunteer section, the knives are out and people fail usually through some ignorance to understand the benefits of working together. And also the limitations. I have no doubt I could be trained to put in an ET tube, but....... I would do it once in a blue moon, would not have the requisite physiology knowledge and likely would do a poor job.... When such an issue prevails, the OP airway I am trained in will do the job needed until the proficient paramedic arrives. So when your not doing things as a career you have to accept some limitations. The blues and 2's thing comes up everywhere. The fact is simple, it seems glamorous and exciting. The reality is that they are tools to do the job. There are people around who would cause disaster and allow others to pillary anyone belonging to that particular group. The fact is that within the volunteering sector, there are many capable folk, and when properly trained who would be a credit to the adjunct of emergency medical care. For those who continue to invent situations where they can illuminate their car at all kinds of incidents, it is clear they don't understand what is being asked for a response driver and I would question their motivation. There are senior A and E consultants who don't believe paramedics add value...... and this goes down the chain to every element. The medical profession is still old boy club in many areas. Let's ask those with experience and knowledge to share, not write off every well intentioned and passionate lay person as a wannabee. As many are not. So I leave it there and hope for some constructive debate, I believe suitably qualified people can add value to FR schemes by being capable of emergency response driving, and uniform aids identity. The skills and characters of those people are the ones that will engratiate or alienate themselves with the local Trust staff. Those whose lives get saved because of those volunteers would probably be happy with such attributes, and might even help educate the rest! Cheers, Gaz
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Post by Mark on Jul 24, 2009 14:16:13 GMT
Hello all,
I have watched this and the other conversation relating to uniforms and blue lights with interest.
I completely agree with some of the points raised by the qualified Paramedics and trained drivers. I also completely understand other points made by CFR's.
UNIFORMS
We wear yellow hi-vis jackets which are marked as FIRST RESPONDER and carry the NHS and local Ambulance Service trust logo. We do have green boiler suits and polo shirts but I choose not to wear them as I refuse to wear them round the office ;-) and don't want to waste valuable time getting changed.
Do I think wearing a "uniform" of sorts is a good idea? Yes I do. One of the most valuable tools in a Paramedics arsenal is the ability to calm a situation down, to relieve the feeling of panic by the patient or their family.
It is without doubt that wearing the hi-vis jacket and carrying the kit in makes the families believe that something is happening. I have lost count of the number of times wives or husbands have said "thank god you are here".
To make one thing clear, I NEVER try and pass myself off as a Paramedic. I am not one and have no wish to be one. Once I think the situation has calmed a little I explain who, what I am and what I am going to do...and that the ambulance is on its way.
A uniform of sorts gives reassurance in times of stress. It also means I can carry gloves, phone, various bits and bobs in my jacket which sits in the car ready to slip on if I get a job. This allows me to relax and not have to remember lots of things, this calmness (I hope) shows itself when I walk in the door.
BLUE LIGHTS
I don't think we need blue lights or sirens. These really need to be reserved for what they were designed for.
I have no wish to fly round my Town risking life and limb. Having been in many vehicles on B&T I have seen the strange reactions people have to them.
But I do believe that there are times when a light or something can alert the tractor or slow moving car in front of me to pull over and let me by. I have been held up for minutes outside a School whilst trying to reach a heart attack call.
So, 2 suggestions. A green light makes sense. It is already known as a medical response and I'm sure it would not take much to change the rules. We can still stay within traffic regs but clear blackspots quicker.
The other option is that you can buy a £15-20 retro fit piece of kit which, at the flick of a switch, flashes your headlights alternately. No blues, no greens, just headlights. I know this only works during daylight but better than nothing maybe? No idea about the legalities on this one!
Sirens however I don't think are at all necessary. Don't want to waking the neighbours up!
IN CONCLUSION
I am really pleased that ALL the Paramedics I have met on jobs have been supportive and enthusiastic of our role. I do this to try and help not for personal gain so if our role was not supported by the crews then i would stop straight away.
Clearly not all Paramedics feel the same way as some posts on this board show, but that may be personal opinion, a lack of communication.. or possibly a poor experience with a CFR.
But I think that all CFR's think Paramedics do an amazing job and although we don't want your job (I already have a brilliant one!) we are putting ourselves out there to assist you with the people that matter here..... the patient.
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Post by ambobod on Aug 8, 2009 10:42:16 GMT
So, 2 suggestions. A green light makes sense. It is already known as a medical response and I'm sure it would not take much to change the rules. We can still stay within traffic regs but clear blackspots quicker. The other option is that you can buy a £15-20 retro fit piece of kit which, at the flick of a switch, flashes your headlights alternately. No blues, no greens, just headlights. I know this only works during daylight but better than nothing maybe? No idea about the legalities on this one! Just a note. Not wishing to be negative, but over the course of time, the green ight issue has been raised, and the concensus of opinion in many other forums and indeed legally is that the green light is for "Medics" i.e Doctors. It has been debated at length. Retro fitted "wig-wag" flashers are also illegal in the UK. Whilst I agree with some of the sentiments posted here, and see my other posts, I think we should be concentrating more on patient care than debating this point. I follow the issues raised here, and indeed see that there is currently a petition on the Govt's No. 10 website to allow the use of B&T's. A new consideration for you. FACT. From now, We (ambulance full time staff) are now to be re-tested every five years. We are also to be suspended fromk driving and re-tested every time we have a crash or minor scuffle (incredible if you consider some of the driving by other motorists that we experience!). How will this impact on CFR's if given the opportunity to use B&T's? It would certainly have a monetary impact, and WILL impact on insurances once they realise that you will have to requalify every five years. For example. - You are a good driver. You have a crash whilst responding to a Red Call.
- Even if it wasn't your fault, the service suspends you from driving until "They" (the service) can retest you, which stops you from responding.
- This takes away the opportunity for you to be trained by a third party, unless you pay to be retested by them.
The only reason that we have got away without mandatory retesting until now was that we drive thousands of miles annually on Red Calls, and this alone was considered to be sufficient to maintain skill levels. Now with so many emergency service accidents (mainly bobbies, mentioned not as a slur, but factually, as the media prefer them!) mentioned in the press, the onus will fall on all of us to prove we are up to the job.
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Post by ddddyyyy on Sept 3, 2009 8:20:44 GMT
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Post by ambobod on Sept 16, 2009 12:43:27 GMT
Hello.... echo..... echooo.......
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Post by Volunteer CFR on Jul 16, 2010 14:17:58 GMT
I have responded now for 18 months. I don't see how it would work for me wearing a uniform. The whole premise is based upon going about my normal day and if I get called then I respond to chest pain/breathing difficulty type problems.
I find a hi viz waistcoat and hi viz jacket (raining), all the uniform necessary. It instantly identifies me as non general-public, for the eagle eyed it sports a reasonable sized badge declaring first responder. I just couldn't wear a uniform because my employer wouldn't allow it and I am not going to sit at home wearing it just in case.
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Post by ron23454 on Nov 26, 2010 23:28:40 GMT
In our group we find that some people wear greens funded by the group and some wear blue (also funded by the group) we moved towards green because the whole trust including FR's have the same outer wear reflective summer and winter coats and our clothing clearly states First Responder and to be honest what the patient or their relative can see is a co-ordinated response that escalates from FR to Paramedic and (as an aside) I noticed that we were treated more as part of the "team" by some crews when we went green. I always say " I am a First Responder from the Ambulance Service there is a Paramedic or Ambulance on its way". As a Ambulance or RRV always comes to us we are part of the structured response, not nicking anyones job and, as older crews see that, and hopefully are supportive of our skill sets and abilities they seem to be OK with greens and do not think we are pretending to be what we are not. Younger crews are normally OK as we have been there with them from the beginning. I am used to the Hospital environment as I work in Radiology and outside have been a Lifeguard Trainer both Canoe and Swimming, Whitewater Rescue Trainer, and have been involved in Mountain Rescue, I now teach First Aid and BLS and can give something into my community, and to be sure 99% of us don't want a blue light we would probably be ok with a green one that says "hello I'm here would you be a bit courteous" but thats down to the politicians and the "Trusts". Oh and one other thing I can wear my uniform all day as I normally work from home when I am "on call" those of us that do more than 24 hours in availability are the ones that seem to wear green in our team what ever people say keep responding cos when I have my "Porterhouse Blue" I want one of you there within 3 mins P L E A S E
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Post by andy35 on Dec 7, 2010 16:01:05 GMT
Interesting thread this! Im a CFR in Cornwall. We are provide with a all in one boiler suit, green in colour that is marked as Ambulance first responder. We are also able to get green combat trousers, polo and t-shirts and a fleece marked Community First Responder. We are also provided with a high vis coat marked in the same way.
All the above is approved by South West Ambulance. And i guess it all comes under PPE so its good to have it. In fact our CFR guidlines say we should wear PPE.
As for blue lights we are not allowed to use them and i wouldnt want to! 90% of the time i can make an address in our local are within 8 mins with normal driving. Yes the adrenalin gets going a bit especially when your going to a resus and it may cause you to hasten your driving. However as we were told in training best to arrive in one piece than need the assistance of another crew!
Gosportcfr i feel your post is excellent. I have built up a great rapport with my local station and crews. They really appreciate what CFR's do and the assistance we provide. I've never thought of myself as a community paramedic. We are what we are, providors of basic life support and patient care till trained ambulance crews can attened. And if you keep that viewpoint you cant go wrong!
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Post by markhot9 on Jan 3, 2012 21:42:50 GMT
I asked my ambulance service about blue lights but they won't give CFR blue light training so it's kind of putting me off because of the area I live in as I could see myself sitting behide a red light when a old man is having a heart attack and is there dieing. The traffic is bad in my area
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